MARSH FAMILIES
DNA PROJECT
 John Marsh, Project Administrator, ajmarsh@arrrg.org
Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b P312+ DF27+ L617+

Return to Home Page:
  
INTRODUCTION:

 A new Y-DNA SNP called L617 was discovered in 2011 in a Marsh (Participant A1 below) in the WTY test at Family Tree DNA.
The person tested L617+ is in haplogroup R1b P312+, below SNP DF27+.  For anyone who has a DF27+ result, they might consider testing
for L617.

There are so far few DF27 people who have been tested for L617.  This web page has been set up to record all of those who
have been tested for L617, and to record their test results.  Basically there are 3 groups shown below. 

The top group are either tested or inferred to be L617+, so have this SNP. 
The middle group are those tested or inferred L617-, so do not have the SNP. 
The bottom group are a few haplotypes which have some similarities to L617+ people, and might be worth testing for L617.

Families who are L617+:  So far, Tyndall (& Teague/ Spink/ Payne) and Marsh families are L617+, and it is believed may be related in the past
500 to 900 years.  A possibility is that the Tyndall and Marsh families descend from a Baron de Tyndall living in Northumberland in about
1,100.  A Rogers family is also L671+,and the Rogers has quite a different haplotype from the Tyndall/ Marsh families.  This indicates
the common ancestor of Tyndall/ Marsh and Rogers families may have lived around 3,000 to 5,000 years ago.  Because all of the L617+
people have the P312+ and DF27+ SNPs  which occurred about 5,000 years ago, it is very likely that the L617+ mutation first occurred
about 3,000 to 5,000 years ago.

William Tyndall martyred 6 Oct 1526 for translating the Bible into English, is believed to be have descended from the Barons de Tyndall of
Northumberland, so may have been related to the Tyndall and Marsh families, and may have been L617+.  This is the subject of ongoing DNA
study to see if it can be verified if William Tyndall was L617+. (Interestingly the Father, paternal grandfather, and paternal line gt gt gt grandfather
of John Marsh who had L617+ discovered in his DNA, were all burried on 6 Oct in various years.  William Tyndall was Martyred on 6 Oct 1526,
so is this a date to be treated with caution by L617+ people?)
File:William Tyndale.jpg
William Tyndall

Geographic Location:  Around 1800 the Rogers family was in Cambridgeshire, England.  The Marsh family were in West Wratting in Cambridgeshire
England back to about the 1400s and possibly back to the 1100s.  The Tyndall family were believed to descend from a Baron de Tyndall of
Tyne Dale and Langley in Northumberland in about 1100, but a branch moved to Northamptonshire in about 1200, and shortly after Norfolk. 
The de Tydnall estates in Northamptonshire and Norfolk were about 6 miles away from estates of a Sir Stephen de Marisco/ de Marcq/ de Merc in
Cambridgeshire and Norfolk.  It is possible that a Simon ed Merc who owned land in West Wratting in the 1100s was a brother of Sir Stephen de
Marisco.  It seems likely based on testing a line believed descended from the same family as Sir Stephen de Marisco that the Y-DNA of the Marsh
family is not that of the de Marisco family.  So it is posssible that a de Tyndall male some time after about 1200 married a Marsh female heiress, and
descendants retained the surname de Marisco/ de Merc/ Marsh along with inheriting the Marsh family estates.  The Spink family from Yorkshire,
appear to possibly descend from a de Tyndall family on the male line, so may trace either back to Northamptonshire about 1300, or directly back to
Tyne Dale in Northumberland.  Although the de Tyndalls moved to Northamptonshire in about 1200, there is a possibility that they had estates or
family connections in the area before 1100.  To date all of the L617+ people have connections around Northamptonshire/ Cambridgeshire, and
possibly Essex, but if L617+ is more than 3,000 years old, it will likely cover a much wider area.  It may L617+ descends via ancient Briton lines, or
Normans, or Danes who historically settled East Anglia.

Anyone testing for L617+:  If someone has test results for L617, positive or negative, please contact John Marsh at ajmarsh@arrrg.org . 

R-P312 and subclades project:  For anyone who is R1b P312+, DF27+, they should consider joining the R-P312 and subclades DNA Project,
see  .  http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/ .  The results table for the R-P312 and subclades project has a subsection for those
who have the SNP DF27, and the potential candidates for L617 will be found amongst these people.  This shows 111 marker haplotypes
for all the people who have tested DF27+.

Distinctive STR Markers in L617+:  The Tyndall/ Marsh (and Teague/ Spink/ Payne) families related about 500-900 years ago, relate to the Rogers
family about 3000+ years ago, and all are L671+.  The only off modal markerscores shared by all these L671+ people are DYS710= 36, and
DYS540= 11.  It is possible that arround 3,000 years ago the common anccestor of the L617+ people discovered so far had these marker
scores.  DYS540= 11 is in particular uncommon, so any persons who are DF27+ and also have DYS540= 11 would be worth testing for
L617+.  The markers DYS710 and DYS540 are in the 68 to 111 marker set tested by Family Free DNA, so not all DF27+ people have yet
tested these markers.  It is possible that L617+ occurred some time before the Marsh and Rogers lines split, so it may be that some L617+
people will not have these two distinctive off modal marker scores.  Marsh and Rogers have 26 mutations diffference on 67 markers, so
potentially any new L617+ might have up to 26 mutations difference to Marsh or Rogers on 67 markers.

An explanation of identification:  Participants in the Marsh Families DNA Project are given a three part identification, eg as
A114B20C1.  In this example, the A114 is the person's individual identity number, the B20 number is the paper trail family number he is
linked to, and the C1 number identifies the group of Y-DNA matching persons which he has been assigned to.  Also, other Q numbers
are assigned to persons of potential interest with similar Y-DNA.

HOW TO ORDER A TEST FOR L617:

Only persons who are R1b haplogroup, and have the SNP P312+ and also DF27+may have the SNP L617.  Persons who have tested
at the test company Family Tree DNA are able to order the SNP. It is not particulraly clear on how to order the SNP, so try following
these instructions...

1) Go to your Faimily Tree DNA Personal Web page.
2) Click on "Order Tests and Upgrades" from the menu on the left hand side of the page.
3) Click on "order advanced tests".  (note don't click on the alternative option "order advanced SNP tests")
4) Under "Filter" at "test type" select "SNP". 
5) Under "Filter" at "marker" type in "L617" and click on "find".
6) Then for L617 click on "add".
7) Then click on "Next" at the far right of the page.  This takes you to the page to compllete payment and complete the order.

If anyone is unsure if there is any value in them testing for L617, please John at email ajmarsh@arrrg.org to obtain advice.

Y-DNA TEST RESULTS


 

 MARSH FAMILIES DNA PROJECT:
Project Administrator AJ Marsh ajmarsh@arrrg.org
Haplogroup
R1b P312+DF27+
L21- L617+
 		 The following are either tested L617+,
or are inferred to be L617+ because a relative has been tested.
(Teague/Tyndall families ... by an approximate method, direct male line relationship to Marsh  families may be about 1,200 years ago, (FTDNA alternatively estimate 50% chance about 500 years ago with less than 3% chance of more than 800 years.)
 		 . .
Surnames tested or inferred to be L617+
MARSH
TYNDALL
TEAGUE (originally TYNDALL???)
PAYNE (originally TINDALE)
SPINK (originally TINDALL???)		 Results Strings for 111 Y-DNA markers as tested at Family Tree DNA 
CLUSTER 1: Currently, Marshes and Tyndalls are thought to have a common ancestor on the direct male line about 500 to 900 years ago, and this infers that L617+ is therefore at least 500 to 900 years old, but possibly older.  It is though possible that Marsh/ Tyndall/ Teague/ Payne/ Spink families may have descended from a Baron (Adam or Robert) de Tyndall in Tynde Dale, Northumberland in the 1100s.  It is unclear what the origin of the de Tyndall family was prior to 1100 was, but a possibility is that they were a family of Norman origin on the direct male line.
CLUSTER 2:  Only Rogers tested L617+ to date from this cluster.  The common ancestor of the Cluster 1  L617+ and the Cluster 2  L617+ would seem to be about 3,000 to 5,000 years ago.  Rogers Q601 and Marsh A1 have 26 mutations between them on 67 markers, implyining a reasonable time back to common ancestor.

 		 . .
Group C1

R1b1a2a1a1b
(A1 tested P312+L21-Z196-DF19- L617+)

 

 

Group C1- Marsh:Marshes generally tracing to Cambridgeshire (in particular West Wratting), Suffolk & Essex England.  There is evidence of a Marshe/ Marche family living in West Wratting Cambridgeshire as far back as the late 1400s, and these are likely ancestors of the C1 Marshes from west Wratting .   There was a Mareys (de Merc/ Maris/ Marsh) family owning land at West Wratting up until 1364 when it passed via an heiress to a Brown family http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=66721 .  A Simon de Merc (de Merk/ de Marcq/ Marsh) owned land at "Wratting" in the 1100s.  There is no evidence to connect the C1 Marsh group to Simon de Merc, or the West Wratting Mareys family, but the possibility of a connection is being investigated.  Current thinking is that West Wratting Marshes may not be direct male line descendants of Simon de Merc, who probably descended from the de Marcq family from near Calais, in France.  Current evidence suggests that the de Marcq family were haplogroup I., represented by a Marris family from Lincolnshire.  After 1200, a descendant of Baron Robert de Tyndall moved to Northamptonshire and Norfolk, and had estates within a few miles of Marsh estates in Cambridgeshire and Norfolk.  Tyndall Q493 has a speculated male line tree to this Robert de Tyndall.  A possibility is that Tyndalls and Marshes descend  on the male line from this Robert de Tyndall some time around 1200 or later, when the Marsh and Tyndall families lived close to each other.
Family B1- Marsh: ancestor = John Marsh b. 1787 West Wratting.  On 25 June 2011 a New SNP L617 was discovered for the first time in A1..
Family B20- Marsh: ancestor = Thomas Marsh b. circa 1670, lived West Wratting. 
Family B96- Marsh: ancestor= James Marsh b.1794?  Burwell.       
Family B78- Marsh: traces to  Gt Bradley Suffolk, 5 miles from West Wratting.    
Family B103- Marsh: descends from James Marsh & Anne Radford living at Cambridge City shortly after 1800. 
Family B108- Marsh:  descends from Henry Marsh1781-1850 & Emma Challis, of Haverhill Suffolk, about 5 miles from West Wratting..
Family B160- Marsh:  descends from William Marsh of Bottisham.   
Family B102- Teague: Surname Teague.  Possibly descended from same family as Tyndall/ Tindales below in the past 900 years? 
Family of Q336- Tindale/ Payne: descends from John Sanford Tindale Payne (Tindale adopted by Payne family)b.1813 Kentucky, son of Isaac John Tindale b.1780.  Some USA Paynes match exactly on 12 markers, but have a large number of mutations difference on more markers.  It is therefore necessary to test more than 12 markers of Paynes to confirm a match with C1 group.
Family of Q493- Tyndall: descends from Charles Tindall b. circa 1662 USA.  It appears this family may descend on the male line from Baron Robert de Tyndall b. about 1120 in Northumberland, who may have been the son of an earlier Baron Adam de Tyndall.   There was a later Baron Adam de Tyndall (eldest son of Robert) who only had surviving daughters, and Tyndall estates passed to lines from these daughters, some of the descendants may have also used the surname Tyndall.
Family B176- : From Yorkshire around 1800.  May descend from a Tyndall family.

 . .
Mutation Rate
Estimate per 10,000 transmissions		 1
1		 4
4		 2
5		 3
2		 2
8		 2
8		 0
3		 0
4		 4
2		 2
2		 1
5		 2
6		 5
8		 1
2		 1
2		 0
3		 0
2		 3
9		 1
7		 2
4		 6
5		 3
5		 3
5		 3
5		 3
5		 2
9		 3
0		 1
2		 1
2		 4
1		 9
5		 1
5
0		 1
4
0		 1
7
0		 1
7
0		 2
0		 1
0		 . . . . . . . . . . . F F F . . . F . . F F . . . . . . . . . . 0
4		 . 3
3		 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
5		 . 3
2		 . 3
2		 6
1		 9
4		 2
7		 . . 2
6		 . 1
5		 6
0		 . .   Haplogroup AncestralLocation
DYS
Numbers >


 		 3
9
3
 		 3
9
0
 		  
1
9
 		 3
9
1
 		 3
8
5
a		 3
8
5
b		 4
2
6
 		 3
8
8
 		 4
3
9
 		 3
8
9
-
1		 3
9
2
 		 3
8
9
-
2		 4
5
8
 		 4
5
9
a		 4
5
9
b		 4
5
5
 		 4
5
4
 		 4
4
7
 		 4
3
7
 		 4
4
8
 		 4
4
9
 		 4
6
4
a		 4
6
4
b		 4
6
4
c		 4
6
4
d		 4
6
0
 		 G
 -
 H
4		 Y
C
A
2
a
 		 Y
C
A
2
b
 		 4
5
6
 		 6
0
7
 		 5
7
6
 		 5
7
0
 		 C
D
Y
a
 		 C
D
Y
b
 		 4
4
2
 		 4
3
8
 		 5
3
1
 		 5
7
8
 		 3
9
5
S
1
a		 3
9
5
S
1
b		 5
9
0
 		 5
3
7
 		 6
4
1
 		 4
7
2
 		 4
0
6
S
1
 		 5
1
1
 		 4
2
5
 		 4
1
3
a
 		 4
1
3
b
 		 5
5
7
 		 5
9
4
 		 4
3
6
 		 4
9
0
 		 5
3
4
 		 4
5
0
 		 4
4
4
 		 4
8
1
 		 5
2
0
 		 4
4
6
 		 6
1
7
 		 5
3
8
 		 4
8
7
 		 5
7
2
 		 6
4
0
 		 4
9
2
 		 5
6
5
 		 7
1
0
 		 4
8
5
 		 6
3
2
 		 4
9
5
 		 5
4
0
 		 7
1
4
 		 7
1
6
 		 7
1
7
 		 5
0
5
 		 4
5
6
 		 5
4
9
 		5
8
9
 		5
2
2
 		4
9
4
 		5
3
3
 		 6
3
6
 		 5
7
5
 		6
3
8
 		4
6
2
 		 4
5
2
 		 4
4
5
 		 G
A
T
T
A
A
1
0		 4
6
3
 		 4
4
1
 		 G
G
A
A
T
1
B
0
7		 5
2
5
 		 7
1
2
 		 5
9
3
 		 6
5
0
 		5
3
2
 		7
1
5
 		5
0
4
 		5
1
3
 		 5
6
1
 		 5
5
2
 		7
2
6
 		 6
3
5
/
C
4
 		 5
8
7
 		6
4
3
 		4
9
7
 		5
1
0
 		4
3
4
 		 4
6
1
 		 4
3
5
 		 . .
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 . .
R1b MODAL    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 09 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b  
CLUSTER 1 common ancestor about 1200?:  Marsh (Cambridgeshire 1500)/ Tyndall  & Payne & Teague (Northumberland 1100/ Northamptonshire 1200)/ Spink (Yorkshire 1800 or 1400?)    
Y1 B1B20B78B96B123B103C1 . . . . . 13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 . 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b1 Camb?
Z1B1C1.JohnMarsh.b.1787WestWratting           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 . 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 . 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b1 Cambridgeshire.
A1 B1C1>>WestWratting1787  L617+           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 11 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 36 15 09 16 11 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 29 12 12 25 13 10 10 20 15 20 13 24 16 13 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b1 L617+ Camb.
A12 B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . . . . .                         .           11 29 12 12 -- 13 10                       23           12   R1b Camb.
A31 B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . . . . .                                     11 29 12 12 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b Camb.
A32B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 . . 12 . . . . . . .                                     11 29 12 12 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b Camb.
A122B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 . . 11 13 13 29 16 . . . . . 15 19 . . . . . . 11 . . . ? . . . . ? 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . ? . .                                     . ? . . ? . .                       23               R1b Camb.
A18B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . . . . .                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       22           12   R1b Camb.
A160 B160C1>>Bottisham1798           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .                                     . . . . . . .                       .               R1b Camb.
Z20 B20C1WilliamMarsh.b.1741WW           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b Camb.
A20 B20C1>>WestWratting1671           13 24 14 10 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b Camb.
A114 B20C1>>WestWratting1671           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .                                     . . . . . . .                       .               R1b Camb.
A128B20?C1>>WestWratting1671           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 . . 11 11 25 . 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 . . . . . . ? 12 . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . .                                     11 . . . 25 13 .                       .           12   R1b Camb.
A96 B96C1>>Burwell1829>>WWc1560?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 17 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 19 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12                                     . . . . . . .                       .               R1b Camb.
A123B123C1>>West Wratting.c1560           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 19 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . ? . .                                     . ? . . ? . .                       .               R1b Camb.
A108 B108C1>>WestWratting.c1560?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 34 39 12 12 . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12                                     . . . . . . .                       .               R1b Suffolk
A103B103C1>>Cambridge1791           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12                                     . . . . . . .                       .               R1b Camb.
A78 B78C1>>GtBradleySuffolk1742?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 36 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12         .                           . . . . . . .                       .               R1b Suffolk
A154 B154C1>>LeytonEssex1812?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 14 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 36 15 09 16 11 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 29 12 13 25 13 10 10 20 15 20 13 24 16 13 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b1 L617+ Essex
A102B102C1Teague>>USA L617+           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 37 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 10 12 12 12 36 15 09 16 11 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 29 12 13 25 13 10 10 20 15 20 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b1 L617+ USA.
A176B176C1>>Yorkshire1700s           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 10 12 12 12                                     . . . . . . .             . .       .               R1b .
Q336Payne/Tindale>>USA.1780           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 . ? . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . ? ? . .                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b USA.
Q493Tyndall>>USA.1662.UK.1120?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 26 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 37 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 10 12 12 12                                     . ? . . ? . .                       .               R1b USA.
CLUSTER 2:  Markey (& Merkel??) (France?/Germany??))    
Q633Markey>>b.1789MD.USA           13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 12 13 28 16 9 9 11 11 24 16 19 31 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . ? . .                                     . ? . . ? . .                       .           . . R1b1 L617+ MD.USA
Q632Merckel>>b.1645Germany(Markle)           13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 12 13 28 18 9 9 11 11 26 16 19 30 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 36 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 9 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12                                     . ? . . ? . .                       .           . . R1b????? Germany
Q634Merkel??(MarkleProjectKit213550)           13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 12 13 28 18 9 9 11 11 26 16 19 30 14 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 9 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 19 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 . . . 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 . . 24 . .                       .           . . R1b????? Germany???
Q?Long?YSearch5EH76           13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 12 13 28 18 9 9 11 11 26 16 19 31 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 18 36 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . ? . .                       .           . . R1b????? ???
Q?Lang?YSearchGermanyKit219050           13 24 14 12 11 14 12 12 11 12 13 28 18 9 9 11 11 25 16 19 30 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 14 19 17 35 38 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . ? . .                       .           . . R1b????? ???
CLUSTER 3:  Rogers (Cambridgeshire 1800)    
Q601Rogers>>1802.UK.Cambridgeshire           13 24 14 12 11 15 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 18 29 15 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 19 17 38 38 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 16 8 11 22 20 13 11 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 09 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 20 15 19 14 23 16 13 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b1 L617+ Camb.
Haplogroup
R1b P312+L21+ DF27-L617+
 		 The following have been given a L617+ result, but are not in the DF27+ subclade of R1b.  This could mean there have been 2 spearate mutations to L617+, or the result for Reid below is a testing error....

This result needs more research.

 . .
DYS
Numbers >


 		 3
9
3
 		 3
9
0
 		  
1
9
 		 3
9
1
 		 3
8
5
a		 3
8
5
b		 4
2
6
 		 3
8
8
 		 4
3
9
 		 3
8
9
-
1		 3
9
2
 		 3
8
9
-
2		 4
5
8
 		 4
5
9
a		 4
5
9
b		 4
5
5
 		 4
5
4
 		 4
4
7
 		 4
3
7
 		 4
4
8
 		 4
4
9
 		 4
6
4
a		 4
6
4
b		 4
6
4
c		 4
6
4
d		 4
6
0
 		 G
 -
 H
4		 Y
C
A
2
a
 		 Y
C
A
2
b
 		 4
5
6
 		 6
0
7
 		 5
7
6
 		 5
7
0
 		 C
D
Y
a
 		 C
D
Y
b
 		 4
4
2
 		 4
3
8
 		 5
3
1
 		 5
7
8
 		 3
9
5
S
1
a		 3
9
5
S
1
b		 5
9
0
 		 5
3
7
 		 6
4
1
 		 4
7
2
 		 4
0
6
S
1
 		 5
1
1
 		 4
2
5
 		 4
1
3
a
 		 4
1
3
b
 		 5
5
7
 		 5
9
4
 		 4
3
6
 		 4
9
0
 		 5
3
4
 		 4
5
0
 		 4
4
4
 		 4
8
1
 		 5
2
0
 		 4
4
6
 		 6
1
7
 		 5
3
8
 		 4
8
7
 		 5
7
2
 		 6
4
0
 		 4
9
2
 		 5
6
5
 		 7
1
0
 		 4
8
5
 		 6
3
2
 		 4
9
5
 		 5
4
0
 		 7
1
4
 		 7
1
6
 		 7
1
7
 		 5
0
5
 		 4
5
6
 		 5
4
9
 		5
8
9
 		5
2
2
 		4
9
4
 		5
3
3
 		 6
3
6
 		 5
7
5
 		6
3
8
 		4
6
2
 		 4
5
2
 		 4
4
5
 		 G
A
T
T
A
A
1
0		 4
6
3
 		 4
4
1
 		 G
G
A
A
T
1
B
0
7		 5
2
5
 		 7
1
2
 		 5
9
3
 		 6
5
0
 		5
3
2
 		7
1
5
 		5
0
4
 		5
1
3
 		 5
6
1
 		 5
5
2
 		7
2
6
 		 6
3
5
/
C
4
 		 5
8
7
 		6
4
3
 		4
9
7
 		5
1
0
 		4
3
4
 		 4
6
1
 		 4
3
5
 		 .. ..
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 .. ..
R1b MODAL    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 09 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b  
Q636 Reid   13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 11 12 13 28 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 15 19 16 37 37 12 12 11 9 15 15 8 10 10 8 11 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 16 8 11 22 20 13 13 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 09 16 12 25 26 19 13 11 14 12 11 9 12 12 10 11 11 31 12 13 24 13 10 10 20 15 18 13 24 16 12 13 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11 R1b .
Haplogroup
R1b P312+ L617-
 		 The following are either tested L617-,
or are inferred to be L617- because a relative has been tested.
QX Bowker is DF19-, L11+, L176.2-, L21-, L23+, L238-, L49+, L617-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M173+, M18-, M207+, M222-, M269+, M343+, M37-, M65-, M73-, P107-, P25+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P66-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152-, U198-, Z196-
 (Ashby 56648/ Blackwell JWYY8 families ... by an approximate method, direct male line relationship to Marsh/ Tyndall families may be about 3,000 years ago.)
QX Kyd is DF19-, L10-, L176.2-, L220-, L221-, L617-, L7-, L8-, L9-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M173+, M18-, M207+, M222-, M269+, M343+, M37-, M65-, M73-, P25+, P66-, SRY2627-, Z196-, Z229-
A181 Clark is Z49+ Z142+ L562+ L2+ M228.2- L617- L553- L552- L325- L257- L21- L20- L196- L193- L176.2- L165-		 . .
DYS
Numbers >


 		 3
9
3
 		 3
9
0
 		  
1
9
 		 3
9
1
 		 3
8
5
a		 3
8
5
b		 4
2
6
 		 3
8
8
 		 4
3
9
 		 3
8
9
-
1		 3
9
2
 		 3
8
9
-
2		 4
5
8
 		 4
5
9
a		 4
5
9
b		 4
5
5
 		 4
5
4
 		 4
4
7
 		 4
3
7
 		 4
4
8
 		 4
4
9
 		 4
6
4
a		 4
6
4
b		 4
6
4
c		 4
6
4
d		 4
6
0
 		 G
 -
 H
4		 Y
C
A
2
a
 		 Y
C
A
2
b
 		 4
5
6
 		 6
0
7
 		 5
7
6
 		 5
7
0
 		 C
D
Y
a
 		 C
D
Y
b
 		 4
4
2
 		 4
3
8
 		 5
3
1
 		 5
7
8
 		 3
9
5
S
1
a		 3
9
5
S
1
b		 5
9
0
 		 5
3
7
 		 6
4
1
 		 4
7
2
 		 4
0
6
S
1
 		 5
1
1
 		 4
2
5
 		 4
1
3
a
 		 4
1
3
b
 		 5
5
7
 		 5
9
4
 		 4
3
6
 		 4
9
0
 		 5
3
4
 		 4
5
0
 		 4
4
4
 		 4
8
1
 		 5
2
0
 		 4
4
6
 		 6
1
7
 		 5
3
8
 		 4
8
7
 		 5
7
2
 		 6
4
0
 		 4
9
2
 		 5
6
5
 		 7
1
0
 		 4
8
5
 		 6
3
2
 		 4
9
5
 		 5
4
0
 		 7
1
4
 		 7
1
6
 		 7
1
7
 		 5
0
5
 		 4
5
6
 		 5
4
9
 		5
8
9
 		5
2
2
 		4
9
4
 		5
3
3
 		 6
3
6
 		 5
7
5
 		6
3
8
 		4
6
2
 		 4
5
2
 		 4
4
5
 		 G
A
T
T
A
A
1
0		 4
6
3
 		 4
4
1
 		 G
G
A
A
T
1
B
0
7		 5
2
5
 		 7
1
2
 		 5
9
3
 		 6
5
0
 		5
3
2
 		7
1
5
 		5
0
4
 		5
1
3
 		 5
6
1
 		 5
5
2
 		7
2
6
 		 6
3
5
/
C
4
 		 5
8
7
 		6
4
3
 		4
9
7
 		5
1
0
 		4
3
4
 		 4
6
1
 		 4
3
5
 		 . ..
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 . ..
Q322RedmondDNAAnc L617-   13 24 14 11 12 13 12 12 11 13 13 29 20 9 9 11 11 . 15 20 29 14 16 17 . 11 11 19 23 15 ? . . . . 11 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 12 . . . ? . .                                     11 29 12 13 25 13 10                       23           12   R1b L617- .
Q406TracySV7WHoAncestorDeArtois?   13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 12 13 13 30 19 9 9 11 11 25 15 20 29 14 16 17 17 10 11 19 23 15 15 18 17 36 38 11 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . ? . .                                     . ? . . ? . .                       .           .   R1b .
Q582Tracy   13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 12 13 13 30 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 20 29 14 16 17 17 10 11 19 23 15 15 18 17 36 38 11 12 11 9 15 16 8 9 10 8 11 10 12 23 24 15 10 12 12 14 9 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 10 11 12 12                                     . ? . . ? . .                       .           . . R1b .
QX Perry  54034  Tested L617-           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 15 18 17 35 37 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23 23 16