MARSH FAMILIES
DNA PROJECT
John Marsh, Project Administrator, ajmarsh@arrrg.org
2b) Y-DNA Test Results for Extra Markers

Return to Home Page:
  
INTRODUCTION:

 THERE ARE CURRENTLY ABOUT 150 Y-DNA MARKERS COMMERCIALLY TESTED: 
Various test companies test some additional markers to the 76 shown on the table below.
Where families have been tested on more markers than 76, these are shown on private
tables only accessible to the families concerned.  Marshes are encouraged to test more
markers than 76, as these enable more detailed conclusions to be reached on relationships.
(see  http://www.kerchner.com/labmerge.htm   & http://www.ybase.org/convert.asp )
Please contact John Marsh ajmarsh@arrrg.org for information about testing more markers.

UNDERLINED MARKER SCORES: Some participants have extra alleles at multi copy
markers.  This confuses my system slightly, so I have underlined some marker scores, the
underline meaning the underlined score should be read as two scores of that value. 
For example at marker DYS464, 14,16,17,17 should be read as 14,14,16,17,17,17.

NON SURNAME MATCHES INCLUDED: In the table below are included a number
of different surname nearish Y-DNA matches.  This has been done as a "working
tool" to explore the pre surname origin of Y-DNA lines, and may not indicate relationship
in the past 1,000 years. 

Y-DNA TEST RESULTS: . MARSH FAMILIES DNA PROJECT:
Project Administrator AJ Marsh ajmarsh@arrrg.org
MARSH/MASH/ NASH/
 MARRIS/MARIS/
MARCH/ MARSCH/
MARESH/ MARES/ MARRES/
 Participant..		 Results Strings/ 76 Markers


MARSH FAMILIES DNA PROJECProject Administrator AJ Marsh ajm

 

 Haplo-
group
est.


 		 Earliest
Ancestor..
Region  


 
Family Tree DNA Markers Sorenson/ DNAH
Test STR Test PP3 Test PP5 38-67  
R1b HAPLOGROUP: . . . .
DYS
Numbers >


 		 3
9
3
 		 3
9
0
 		  
1
9
 		 3
9
1
 		 3
8
5
a		 3
8
5
b		 4
2
6
 		 3
8
8
 		 4
3
9
 		 3
8
9
-
1		 3
9
2
 		 3
8
9
-
2		 4
5
8
 		 4
5
9
a		 4
5
9
b		 4
5
5
 		 4
5
4
 		 4
4
7
 		 4
3
7
 		 4
4
8
 		 4
4
9
 		 4
6
4
a		 4
6
4
b		 4
6
4
c		 4
6
4
d		 4
6
0
 		 G
A
T
T
A
H
4		 Y
C
A
2
a
 		 Y
C
A
2
b
 		 4
5
6
 		 6
0
7
 		 5
7
6
 		 5
7
0
 		 C
D
Y
a
 		 C
D
Y
b
 		 4
4
2
 		 4
3
8
 		 5
3
1
 		 5
7
8
 		 3
9
5
S
1
a		 3
9
5
S
1
b		 5
9
0
 		 5
3
7
 		 6
4
1
 		 4
7
2
 		 4
0
6
S
1
 		 5
1
1
 		 4
2
5
 		 4
1
3
a
 		 4
1
3
b
 		 5
5
7
 		 5
9
4
 		 4
3
6
 		 4
9
0
 		 5
3
4
 		 4
5
0
 		 4
4
4
 		 4
8
1
 		 5
2
0
 		 4
4
6
 		 6
1
7
 		 5
3
8
 		 4
8
7
 		 5
7
2
 		 6
4
0
 		 4
9
2
 		 5
6
5
 		 4
6
1
 4
6
2
 G
G
A
A
T
1
B
0
7		 G
A
T
T
A
A
10		 G
A
T
T
A
C
4
D
Y
S
6
3
5		 D
Y
S
4
4
1		 D
Y
S
4
4
5		 D
Y
S
4
5
2		 D
Y
S
4
6
3		 . .
Mut. R.
Est.
/10,000		 1
1		 4
4		 2
5		 3
2		 2
8		 2
8		 0
3		 0
4		 4
2		 2
2		 1
5		 2
6		 5
8		 1
2		 1
2		 0
3		 0
2		 3
9		 1
7		 2
4		 6
5		 3
5		 3
5		 3
5		 3
5		 2
9		 3
0		 1
2		 1
2		 4
1		 9
5		 1
5
0		 1
4
0		 1
7
0		 1
7
0		 2
0		 1
0		 . . . . . . . . . . . F F F . . . F . . F F . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 . .
R1b1b2
(A1 tested P312+L21-)

 

 

Group C1:Marshes generally tracing to Cambridgeshire (in particular West Wratting), Suffolk & Essex England.  [There is evidence of a Marshe/ Marche family living in West Wratting Cambridgeshire as far back as the late 1400s, and these are likely ancestors of the C1 Marshes from west Wratting.  .   There was a Mareys (de Merc/ Maris/ Marsh) family owning land at West Wratting up until 1364 when it passed via an heiress to a Brown family http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=66721 .  A Simon de Merc (de Merk/ Marsh) owned land at "Wratting" in the 1100s.  There is no evidence to connect the C1 Marsh group to Simon de Merc, or the West Wratting Mareys family, but the possibility of a connection is being investigated.]  The Tynd
Family B1: ancestor = John Marsh b. 1787 West Wratting. Family B20: ancestor = Thomas Marsh b. circa 1670, lived West Wratting. 
Family B96 ancestor= James Marsh b.1794?  Burwell.        Family B78: traces to  Gt Bradley Suffolk, 5 miles from West Wratting.    
Family B103: descends from James Marsh & Anne Radford living at Cambridge City shortly after 1800. 
Family B108:  descends from Henry Marsh1781-1850 & Emma Challis, of Haverhill Suffolk, about 5 miles from West Wratting..
Family B160:  descends from William Marsh of Bottisham.   
Family B102- Teague: Surname Teague.  Possibly descended from same family as Tyndall/ Tindales below in the past 900 years?
Family of Q336- Tindale: descends from John Sanford Tindale Payne (Tindale adopted by Payne family)b.1813 Kentucky, son of Isaac John Tindale b.1780.
Family of Q493- Tyndall: descends from Charles Tindall b. circa 1662.  It appears this family may descend on the male line from Baron Adam de Tyndall b. about 1120 in Northumberland.   Some have suggested that it is "possible" Baron Adam de Tyndall was a son or grandson of Uchtred of Tyndale.  A Johnstone family are believed to descend from Uchtred of Tyndale, and an Armstrong family are believed to descend from Uchtred of Tyndale's brother, so some Johnston and Armstrongs are shown below who are possibly from the Uchtred of Tyndale family.  It is believed that Uchtred descends on the male line from early Kings of Denmark, Sweden & Norway.  First impressions are that Tyndalls probably don't relate on the direct male line  to Johnstons who descend from Uchtred, but there is just a slight possibility of relationship.  (7 matching off modal markers)
 Family of Bruce?:  It has been hard to find a family in the area where the Baron Adam de Tyndale came from where Adam and Robert are common names.  The Bruce family (??Q526 ??)(same family as King Robert Bruce) included those names, and the Bruce family had various associations with families in the Tyndall's context.  Adam de Bruce b.abt 1051 appears to have possibly obtained his name from his mother's father, count "Alan" of Brittany.  Count Alan had another daughter (?) Wymarc who owned land at Weston Colville.  Some of this Bruce family may have owned land at Carlisle (Cardoill).  In the late 1200s, Bruces held the Castle of Carlisle. Adam de Bruce b.1051 appears to have had a son Adam II, and a son Robert b.abt 1071.  Adam II had a son Adam III.  Could the Robert de Cardoill also the son of an  Adam, who was the second husband of Helewise, Wife of Baron  Adam II de Tyndale, be the son of Adam de Bruce?  Some have suggested that the Robert Tyndale of Tansover in Northamptonshire, was in fact Robert de Cardoill, second husband of Helewise, widow of Baron Adam II de Tyndale.  Could Adam I or II de Bruce possibly have been Baron Adam I de Tyndale?
 Z1 is John Marsh b.1787.   Y1 the unknown common ancestor of families B1, B20, B78, B96 & B103 who probably lived between about 1350 and 1600..  There is a suggestion that a Marsh family B83 of Ashdon Essex may descend from a Marsh living at West Wratting in the 1500s, but preliminary DNA tests indicate that the B83 family Ashdon Marshes "probably" do not relate to the West Wratting C1 Marsh clan in this time frame.    Locus 44=11   & 47=9 & 65=12, are rare in haplogroup R1b1b2, and in some cases matches on these markers may be significant. 

 Locus 08=29 &09=25 are uncommon.
Note, there are calibration differences between companies on some of these markers.		 . .
DYS
Numbers >


 		 3
 9
 3
 		 3
 9
 0
 		  
 1
 9
 		 3
 9
 1
 		 3
 8
 5
 a		 3
 8
 5
 b		 4
 2
 6
 		 3
 8
 8
 		 4
 3
 9
 		 3
 8
 9
 -
 1		 3
 9
 2
 		 3
 8
 9
 -
 2		 4
 5
 8
 		 4
 5
 9
 a		 4
 5
 9
 b		 4
 5
 5
 		 4
 5
 4
 		 4
 4
 7
 		 4
 3
 7
 		 4
 4
 8
 		 4
 4
 9
 		 4
 6
 4
 a		 4
 6
 4
 b		 4
 6
 4
 c		 4
 6
 4
 d		 4
 6
0
 		 G
 -
 H
 4		 Y
 C
 A
 2
 a
 		 Y
 C
 A
 2
 b
 		 4
 5
 6
 		 6
 0
 7
 		 5
 7
 6
 		 5
 7
 0
 		 C
D
Y
a
 		 C
D
Y
b
 		 4
 4
 2
 		 4
 3
 8
 		 5
3
1
 		 5
7
8
 		 3
9
5
S
1
a		 3
9
5
S
1
b		 5
9
0
 		 5
3
7
 		 6
4
1
 		 4
7
2
 		 4
0
6
S
1
 		 5
1
1
 		 4
2
5
 		 4
1
3
a
 		 4
1
3
b
 		 5
5
7
 		 5
9
4
 		 4
3
6
 		 4
9
0
 		 5
3
4
 		 4
5
0
 		 4
4
4
 		 4
8
1
 		 5
2
0
 		 4
4
6
 		 6
1
7
 		 5
3
8
 		 4
8
7
 		 5
7
2
 		 6
4
0
 		 4
9
2
 		 5
6
5
 		 4
 6
 1
 		4
 6
 2
1
B
0
7		 G
 -
 A
10		 G
 -
 C
 4		 D
 Y
 S
 4
 4
 1		 D
 Y
 S
 4
 4
 5		 D
 Y
 S
 4
 5
 2		 D
 Y
 S
 4
 6
 3		 . .
Locusxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 . .
R1b MODAL    13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 12 11 10 13 23 13 12 30 24 R1b  
Y1 B1B20B78B96B123B103C1 . . . . . 13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 12 11 10 13 23 13 12 29 25 R1b1b2 Camb?
Z1B1C1.JohnMarsh.b.1787WestWratting           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 . 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 . 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 12 11 10 13 23 13 12 29 25 R1b1b2 Camb.
A1 B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 38 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 11 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 12 11 10 12 23 13 12 29 25 R1b1b2 Camb.
A12 B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . . . . . 12 11 10 12 23 13 12 29 -- R1b Camb.
A31 B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . . . . . 12 11 10 12 23 13 12 29 25 R1b Camb.
A32B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 . . 12 . . . . . . . 12 11 10 12 23 13 12 29 25 R1b Camb.
A122B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 . . 11 13 13 29 16 . . . . . 15 19 . . . . . . 11 . . . ? . . . . ? 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . ? . . . . . . 23 . . ? ? R1b Camb.
A18B1C1>>WestWratting1787           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 . . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . . . . . 12 11 10 13 22 13 12 29 25 R1b Camb.
A160 B160C1>>Bottisham1798           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R1b Camb.
Z20 B20C1WilliamMarsh.b.1741WW           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 12 11 10 13 23 13 12 29 25 R1b Camb.
A20 B20C1>>WestWratting1671           13 24 14 10 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 12 11 10 13 23 13 12 29 25 R1b Camb.
A114 B20C1>>WestWratting1671           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R1b Camb.
A128B20?C1>>WestWratting1671           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 . . 11 11 25 . 19 28 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 . . . . . . ? 12 . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . 12 11 . . . 13 . . 25 R1b Camb.
A96 B96C1>>Burwell1829>>WWc1560?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 17 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 19 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 . . . . . . . . . R1b Camb.
A123B123C1>>West Wratting.c1560           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 19 17 35 39 12 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . ? ? R1b Camb.
A108 B108C1>>WestWratting.c1560?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 34 39 12 12 . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 . . . . . . . . . R1b Suffolk
A103B103C1>>Cambridge1791           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 11 . . . . . . . . . R1b Camb.
A78 B78C1>>GtBradleySuffolk1742?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14 16 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 36 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 . . . . . . . . . R1b Suffolk
A154 B154C1>>LeytonEssex1812?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 16 16 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 14 17 35 39 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 11 12 12 12 . . . . . . . ? ? R1b Essex
A102B102C1Teague>>USA           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 37 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 12 12 11 13 10 12 12 12 . . . . . . . 29 25 R1b USA.
Q336Payne/Tindale>>USA.1780           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 . ? . . . . 12 12 . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . 12 . . 12 . . . ? ? . . 12 11 10 13 23 13 12 29 25 R1b USA.
Q493Tyndall>>USA.1662.UK.1120?           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 26 15 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 37 12 12 . . . . . . ? . . ? . . . . . . . . . ? . . ? . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . ? ? R1b USA.
Q545Payne>NO MATCH TO Q336 BEYOND 12 MARKERS           13 24 14 11 12 14 12 12 11 13 13 29 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<